|
Post by Russell on Feb 24, 2010 21:23:59 GMT
Bitty of a cheekly question but what do you think?
I have a Bolero 25 called Merlin which I sail from Portchester SC, I know before anyone shouts, a Bolero is a quarter tonner. However, our Rig is quite substantially smaller than the Bolero's such as Sgt Pepper, Purple Haze and Ayanami who are sailing in the mid fleet at the Quarter Ton Cup. We rate off IRC .853 which is not that dis similar to the likes of Shallot. We have found sailing in the quarter ton fleet very demotivating as the rig set up we have is just not competative.
Could we come and race with you guys?? as I think your boat speed would be far more compareable to ours and we would hopefully get much better sailing.
P.S we would behave.
So what do you think
|
|
|
Post by Fuzzy Rush on Feb 25, 2010 22:36:20 GMT
Hi Russell, Thanks for your question – It is a topical one, since I have recently had approaches from other Quarter Tonners that have similar dilemmas, and I have been asked the same question before. So, I will make the following points and I am happy to hear any other thoughts. The Mini Tonner Class is very new and we are really just getting established, so I don’t feel now is the time for substantial rule changes, especially as what we have now is a sound basis for our class – building on the success of the Quarter Tonners lead. It may not be a perfect formula and in the future things may be changed -although only if it is decided that it’s in the best interests of the majority of the class. To this end, I understand the Quarter Tonners will soon be discussing their IRC ratings and whether there should be any upper/lower limits to keep the racing close. We will be interested to see the results of this debate. Ultimately for 2010, the Mini Tonner events will be raced by the boats that qualify under our present definitions regardless of their current IRC rating i.e. they held an IOR rating of 16.5 or less or have been given dispensation by the Class as being designed in the ‘spirit’ of Mini Tonner and were built in that era. With regard to this year’s Mini Ton Cup Regatta, to ensure that we all have something to race for, we intend to have a trophy for the boats racing ‘3-Up’ (i.e. with only 3 crew) – as the Mini Tonners did originally – and also for the first production boat (in close to standard trim). By giving this incentive, and providing a racing option under the ISCRS, we hope to encourage a spread of entrants and offer something of an opportunity to all - thus hopefully avoiding having any ‘de-motivated’ sailors! I hope that in the way we have many ‘Production’ Mini Tonners getting involved in our class, the Quarter Tonners also might see a similar growth of interest from boats that might be racing for the lower positions in the Quarter Tonner fleet, but still enjoy their own ‘race within the race’ nonetheless. I think to try to encourage development of these ideas would a better ‘focus’ for this season – rather than trying to mix up the existing fleets. Matt
|
|
|
Post by Russell on Feb 26, 2010 8:39:25 GMT
Matt
Thanks for your response and I fully support your position.
I will await with interest the outcome of the QT class review of IRC ratings.
As you develop the Mini Ton class can I encourage you to give strong consideration to the power of the cheque book and the impact this has on the playing field.
I own Merlin in partnership with my Father in Law having purchased her a couple of years ago for £6500. Our budget for running the boat is very small but none the less we are very keen and really enjoy the sailing we do.
It is fair to say we have ceased to follow the events of the QT class because we just can not compete with the large sums of cash that many of the fleet launch at their boats. Personally I don't feel being competitive in the QT class is within reach of everyone any longer.
Enjoy the development of the class and perhaps we will see some Mini Tonners on the water at Portchester this year?
Russell
|
|
|
Post by MikeM on Mar 3, 2010 12:30:00 GMT
There are a lot of hunter formula 1's down this way mant are asking if they can join the mini ton fleet??? Not technically a mini but a bit like a J24 asking if they can join the quater ton fleet! Where do you stand with these later produced boats?
|
|
antc
Junior Member
Posts: 70
|
Post by antc on Mar 3, 2010 21:25:21 GMT
the minitonner idea i think is a fantastic one, because it puts yachting in the grasp of people like me who have very small budgets to run there boat. it is important to encourage the growth of the class with this principal in mind so i think it would be good to allow the more modern small boats to join us. i will be racing against formula 1's this summer up at Rutland when they come out of hibernation and it will be interesting to see if my Eboat can keep up.
however i think it that doing everything at once could weaken the class as we haven't even had our first event yet (which i am looking forward to immensely). and we need to build up a regular turnout. but most importantly the last thing we want to do is take away from the spirit of the class.
|
|
|
Post by Fuzzy Rush on Mar 3, 2010 22:02:54 GMT
I quite agree with Ant on this point.
We are all about encouraging a small 'affordable' boat fleet - and we have set some guidelines that include some boats which are really very close to MT's in spirit.
However, as I understand it (and as stated on the original F1 brochure) the Formula One's did have an IOR rating that would have been too high to allow them to race as a Mini Tonner at 18.5.
So, for now at least, I am inclined not to include F1's as part of the MT fleet. (They also already have their own established fleet - so I don't feel like we are abandoning anyone here!)
Given the similarity of the boats and their size I wonder whether we may well be able to race alongside each other - perhaps even running a 'joint event' (I think you were looking for interest for something like this at Rutland, Ant?)
|
|
|
Post by chiron on Mar 4, 2010 13:21:39 GMT
The original Bolero's had that smaller rig, the big rig is known as the Irish rig. It's much loftier and there is a 6 inch lead shoe on the bottom of the keel I believe. There was one on the River Forth called Ice Cool that did this conversion 10 or so years ago and against the standard boats she was a flying machine.
|
|
antc
Junior Member
Posts: 70
|
Post by antc on Mar 4, 2010 18:12:05 GMT
i would love to get a joint event going up at Rutland for any boats under 26ft (as that is the biggest we are allowed on the lake) to make it a real spectacle. the formulas do have a good fleet going at Rutland so it will be interesting so see how the eboat fairs. i am not sure how the Ior rating worked (i am to young )however I'm sure they cannot be that much faster than us. i look forward to the east coast champs at burnham where we will be able to have a chat about all of this! this could be the start of something as good if not better than the QT fleet i think It would be a mistake to dismiss other "modern minis" joining us
|
|
|
Post by scottkaczor on Mar 5, 2010 7:42:04 GMT
The F1 is a much faster boat. There is an F1 at West Mersea (Zombie Zoo) now for sale, that just has jibs or non-overlappers for IRC racing and it rates 0.862. That would put it at about 0.875 in class trim. Thats about 2.5% quicker than Shallot rating with big spinnakers and 145% headsails, bearing in mind that Shallot rates 2.7% quicker than a Sonata. I think all of us will have trouble keeping up with the F1s!
|
|
|
Post by David Thomas jnr on May 26, 2010 12:52:50 GMT
To the guys from merlin,
My dad owns sgt pepper, and i now helm it in the qt events. I am sad that you didnt feel comfortable in the fleet and have decided to look elsewhere. When we started in the qt fleet our boat was a very different machine! We were at the back of the fleet and it was a bit depressing. Since then we have done a few things to make the boat more suitable for this sort of racing. None of it is what you would call expensive. The important thing to remember about the bolero is that it is built like a tank compared to most other qts! There is a lot of weight to be taken out of your boat, just like we did with ours.
Our boat is far from pretty but as a bit of fun for family racing it is great, no point spending money on making it look good if you are on a budget. A bit of elbow grease and a tin of white paint down below sort that out to a reasonable level.
The biggest thing we struggle with is speed downwind, because we have jumpers we cannot really hoist the kite far up the mast. You are welcome to try one of our big kites on the boat as it should work with your rig. That is the best addition we have made and we are constantly pestering quantum to make us bigger and bigger kites although they keep saying we are as big as we can go.
We also have a big genoa that may fit your boat if you want to try that... we now just have non overlapping jibs after moving our forestay out to the bow.
If you are around and want to take a look at the simple things we have done to the boat then we are in Universal marina on the hamble river and will be at the qtc and cowes week too. There is a lot you can do to get your boat in touch with the likes of ayanami and us. You have a nice low rating so the rating office will find it hard to put you up too high so you are starting in a good place here.
The qt fleet is a very high standard so stick with it and you will learn a lot. Just remember that the bolero is a heavy wind weapon especially in a fleet of boats with rigs that are "too big". We were getting top 5 on the water at the top marks in the qtc in the breeze and ended up finishing in the top third which was very good and 4 years ago we were in your shoes thinking we had a boat with a little rig and no chance of seeing the front of the fleet.
|
|
|
Post by Piers Stanbury on Jun 17, 2010 15:57:40 GMT
I would like to congratulate David and his team on winning the QTC best production boat, hope it goes to show that you need to spend lots of money to get results, just time and effort. Unless you spend a lot of money in the first place for a top quality boat it will take time for the results to come, but stick with it, work out what most bang for your bucks are going to make the boat quicker (a smooth fair bottom and good sails are essential) and you can get there. Weel done guys, Piers
|
|
|
Post by Piers Stanbury on Jun 21, 2010 11:08:25 GMT
I obviously meant to say that you don't need loads of money! Piers
|
|
|
Post by David Thomas jnr on Jun 22, 2010 12:15:01 GMT
Yes we were very happy with the result. I am very happy with where we are in the fleet at the moment because we know that to beat the boats ahead we have had to sail a better race than them, and we very often do, we rarely get any favours from our boat being better kitted out than anyone elses.
We are potentially looking at a new rig for the coming year just so that we can compete in the lighter winds, it is seriously frustrating being underpowered. Our other problem is that because we have jumpers on the current mast we cannot fly big kites so downwind we are slow. Perhaps soon there will be a large supply of 35-38m kites available for you miniton guys. Our kites would be perfect for a big rigged minitonner on a budget!
|
|
ianw
New Member
Posts: 6
|
Post by ianw on Jul 22, 2010 11:30:09 GMT
Another 'inclusion' request
We've just joined the forum, well done everyone involved in setting this up as it's something thats been missing, putting together well organised events & a friendly class that encourages the use of all the small affordable boats that are out there.
We currently have an Etap 22i, it wasn't our first choice (we'd been looking at Limbos) but it was too good to miss and fitted our criteria. Reading through the various threads has got me thinking that it would be great to join in, first thought would be to trade the Etap for a Limbo or SK, however now thinking "Do we need to?" No idea if the 22i was ever rated when it was current (introduced 1987/88 ish) but performance can't be too far off the fleet, 22.3' LOA, 18.0' LWL, 8.1' B, 975kg, Main + #1 approx 250 sq.ft.
Would be interested in your thoughts.
|
|
will
New Member
Posts: 10
|
Post by will on Oct 12, 2010 21:51:00 GMT
hi guys ... as were on the topic of can i be a mini toner i was wandering if even though i am not technically a mini toner (pandora) the racing i have dine has come out with pretty good results and pretty high speeds so i was wandering if i could compete with you guys in your events to help me gain experience and to have some more small boats to race against .
let me know what you think .
|
|